[Aug 7, 2011 8:00:41 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Alright welcome all – hopefully everyone had a good weekened
[Aug 7, 2011 8:00:48 PM EDT] InvestorsLive lotta new members signed up today
[Aug 7, 2011 8:00:53 PM EDT] InvestorsLive just before we start – this is how we do it
[Aug 7, 2011 8:01:03 PM EDT] InvestorsLive we go over stuff… we stay on topic
[Aug 7, 2011 8:01:15 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and ask questions accordingly .. I will open it up AFTER
[Aug 7, 2011 8:01:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if I’m talking about shorting, don’t ask me if AAPL is a good buy
[Aug 7, 2011 8:01:32 PM EDT] InvestorsLive etc
[Aug 7, 2011 8:02:03 PM EDT] InvestorsLive secondly as I ask of everyone PLEASE get familiar with the new members page – really, we are not a service to tell you BUY now SELL now follow the leader sheep sheep sheep
[Aug 7, 2011 8:02:14 PM EDT] InvestorsLive we are a community of REAL traders, people who do it for a living and willing to help
[Aug 7, 2011 8:02:37 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and lastly I’ve got a power point on the main topic for tonight which is shorting – layman’s terms into how we do it
[Aug 7, 2011 8:03:16 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Alright so I’ll do the power point now – should answer most questions then I have all the questions sent in
[Aug 7, 2011 8:03:20 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and I’ll cover those
[Aug 7, 2011 8:03:24 PM EDT] InvestorsLive then open it up at the end
[Aug 7, 2011 8:04:50 PM EDT] InvestorsLive work for everyone?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:04:55 PM EDT] chunger yup
[Aug 7, 2011 8:04:55 PM EDT] lorenzo2win yes
[Aug 7, 2011 8:04:56 PM EDT] -war- yep
[Aug 7, 2011 8:04:57 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR Yes
[Aug 7, 2011 8:04:57 PM EDT] rwaters254 bingo
[Aug 7, 2011 8:05:05 PM EDT] Irukandji Yes
[Aug 7, 2011 8:05:17 PM EDT] InvestorsLive one last thing if someone ask in 15 minutes or 20 minutes for the link I’m not going to post it – can you all just spam PM them at the same time
[Aug 7, 2011 8:05:22 PM EDT] InvestorsLive for being late to the party
[Aug 7, 2011 8:05:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive 🙂
[Aug 7, 2011 8:05:34 PM EDT] -war- yep
[Aug 7, 2011 8:05:40 PM EDT] InvestorsLive thx guys
[Aug 7, 2011 8:05:41 PM EDT] InvestorsLive alright
[Aug 7, 2011 8:05:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I’m seriously starting real simple
[Aug 7, 2011 8:06:07 PM EDT] InvestorsLive because believe it or not .. many have NO clue what it even means
[Aug 7, 2011 8:06:24 PM EDT] InvestorsLive It’s just the opposite of going long, normally you buy low and you want to sell high
[Aug 7, 2011 8:06:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but this time you borrow the shares to sell high, and aim to re buy them lower
[Aug 7, 2011 8:06:51 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if you’re long a stock and it goes down, you’re down
[Aug 7, 2011 8:06:57 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if you’re short a stock and it goes up, you’re down
[Aug 7, 2011 8:07:19 PM EDT] InvestorsLive people always say shorting is so risky because… your risk is unlimited
[Aug 7, 2011 8:07:27 PM EDT] InvestorsLive sure… it’s “unlimited”
[Aug 7, 2011 8:07:47 PM EDT] InvestorsLive because technically if you’re long $2,000 worth of a stock
[Aug 7, 2011 8:07:50 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and it goes to $0
[Aug 7, 2011 8:07:56 PM EDT] InvestorsLive MAX you can lose is $2000
[Aug 7, 2011 8:08:12 PM EDT] InvestorsLive whereas if a stock is at $2 and goes to $10 and you short at $2
[Aug 7, 2011 8:08:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you’re original position size is $2,000 but now you’re down $8,000
[Aug 7, 2011 8:08:45 PM EDT] InvestorsLive THAT IS WHERE THE IDEA THAT SHORTING IS RISKIER THAN GOING LONG
[Aug 7, 2011 8:08:46 PM EDT] InvestorsLive that’s it
[Aug 7, 2011 8:08:49 PM EDT] InvestorsLive that’s the argument
[Aug 7, 2011 8:09:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive silly argument, ‘technically’ people are ‘right’
[Aug 7, 2011 8:09:14 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but for a trader, you’re risk is the calculated risk you took going into the trade
[Aug 7, 2011 8:09:33 PM EDT] MilesJStoner very smart
[Aug 7, 2011 8:09:51 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you went in with a plan, if you stick to the plan .. than well.. you’re risk is just as great as the long side
[Aug 7, 2011 8:10:15 PM EDT] InvestorsLive sure there could be a random buyout and things like that – but when there is chatter, or pending drug news, fda stuff
[Aug 7, 2011 8:10:30 PM EDT] InvestorsLive do you see me play it all day, over night etc?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:10:34 PM EDT] InvestorsLive answer is no, I will play the INITIAL move and be done with it
[Aug 7, 2011 8:10:52 PM EDT] InvestorsLive that’s the only place I see ADDITIONAL risk on the short side
[Aug 7, 2011 8:11:13 PM EDT] InvestorsLive is if you’re playing with a rumored buyout, you know reports are coming out, you know FDA is expected ANY day etc
[Aug 7, 2011 8:11:23 PM EDT] InvestorsLive that’s my own personal opinion
[Aug 7, 2011 8:11:33 PM EDT] InvestorsLive so that’s that regarding shorting being RISKER than longs
[Aug 7, 2011 8:11:38 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and that whole silly argument
[Aug 7, 2011 8:11:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions so far?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:11:43 PM EDT] sbbi98 what is ‘initial move’?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:11:53 PM EDT] Laura and if not sure of it, don’t o/n it
[Aug 7, 2011 8:11:58 PM EDT] InvestorsLive the initial move, if it jumps on buyout chatter
[Aug 7, 2011 8:12:15 PM EDT] InvestorsLive $15 to $19 and looks like a quick short, I will scalp it
[Aug 7, 2011 8:12:15 PM EDT] InvestorsLive short side
[Aug 7, 2011 8:12:23 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but if it’s an hour later and sorta hanging on to all gains
[Aug 7, 2011 8:12:29 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I just ignore it … I play the initial spike only, in and out
[Aug 7, 2011 8:12:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive halts usually take at least 30-60 minutes on that stuff
[Aug 7, 2011 8:12:46 PM EDT] InvestorsLive sometimes sooner but they are only scalps
[Aug 7, 2011 8:12:48 PM EDT] InvestorsLive good question tho
[Aug 7, 2011 8:12:55 PM EDT] jssmoney what do you see as the best sectors to short this week
[Aug 7, 2011 8:13:03 PM EDT] sbbi98 i thought you do not monitor news… ?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:13:10 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ok that’s one of the questions I was referring to at the beginning of the seminar jssmoney
[Aug 7, 2011 8:13:17 PM EDT] InvestorsLive as to what not to ask
[Aug 7, 2011 8:13:25 PM EDT] InvestorsLive please review new member page on how we trade
[Aug 7, 2011 8:13:38 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I don’t sbbi – but if T530 puts a buyout chatter in the chat room
[Aug 7, 2011 8:13:42 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and it pops straight up
[Aug 7, 2011 8:13:46 PM EDT] InvestorsLive there’s an opportunity there
[Aug 7, 2011 8:14:14 PM EDT] gmkuta what do you find your percentage is short to long?’
[Aug 7, 2011 8:14:16 PM EDT] InvestorsLive IDCC for example
[Aug 7, 2011 8:14:21 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I won’t over night short that
[Aug 7, 2011 8:14:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive too much pending buyout rumor stuff
[Aug 7, 2011 8:14:30 PM EDT] -war- I think there is a difference between monitoring news as a form of trading, as opposed to being aware of why a stock is spiking
[Aug 7, 2011 8:14:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive gmkuta- that stuff doesnt matter – that won’t help you
[Aug 7, 2011 8:14:45 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR On the initial move, if T530 posts a stock, and right away it’s up 20cent, is that a long you take? Simple wise at what point do you know the move is done?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:15:20 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if it sets up in a way I am familiar sure, if it’s too much risk based on the chart no – we covered T530 in the seminar b4
[Aug 7, 2011 8:15:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive anything else RELATED to the intro
[Aug 7, 2011 8:15:29 PM EDT] InvestorsLive otherwise I’m going to slide 3
[Aug 7, 2011 8:15:36 PM EDT] chunger IL: with regards to your example of IDCC, where do you see “pending buyout rumor stuff”? Are these from msg boards or talking to ppl?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:15:42 PM EDT] sbbi98 sorry is t530 a member who is good at news?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:15:50 PM EDT] InvestorsLive right in the chat room
[Aug 7, 2011 8:15:50 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR lol
[Aug 7, 2011 8:16:04 PM EDT] InvestorsLive re: IDCC everyone knows that
[Aug 7, 2011 8:16:12 PM EDT] InvestorsLive its been hot stock for past 2 weeks on everyones radar
[Aug 7, 2011 8:16:17 PM EDT] InvestorsLive yes trader530 in chat great news feeder
[Aug 7, 2011 8:16:17 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Alright – moving on slide #3
[Aug 7, 2011 8:16:25 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Visually just showing a long
[Aug 7, 2011 8:16:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive vs a short
[Aug 7, 2011 8:16:47 PM EDT] InvestorsLive http://goo.gl/k1Bhz
[Aug 7, 2011 8:17:03 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Slide 4
[Aug 7, 2011 8:17:12 PM EDT] InvestorsLive when you’re long you have 1000 shares in your account for example
[Aug 7, 2011 8:17:16 PM EDT] InvestorsLive when you’re short you have -1000
[Aug 7, 2011 8:17:27 PM EDT] InvestorsLive the only way to get a long (1000 shares) to 0 is to sell 1000 shares
[Aug 7, 2011 8:17:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive the only way to get -1000 (ie: short) back to 0
[Aug 7, 2011 8:17:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive is to buy 1000 shares
[Aug 7, 2011 8:18:02 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Visual Long: http://goo.gl/T7wue
[Aug 7, 2011 8:18:04 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR Is the Pattern Day Trading rule apply to shorting as well, since you sell first?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:18:23 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ask ur broker
[Aug 7, 2011 8:18:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Visual Long page showing the buy first
[Aug 7, 2011 8:18:42 PM EDT] InvestorsLive $2500 worth (ie: 1000 shares at $2.50)
[Aug 7, 2011 8:18:58 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you account shows the 1000 shares, in order to go flat you sell the 1000
[Aug 7, 2011 8:19:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive duh, that’s easy we know that
[Aug 7, 2011 8:19:08 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ok so now the flip side
[Aug 7, 2011 8:19:16 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Visual Short http://goo.gl/OHTht
[Aug 7, 2011 8:19:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive like I said before – just a visual example
[Aug 7, 2011 8:19:46 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you sell first, so you’ve got a positive $4500 balance in cash
[Aug 7, 2011 8:19:50 PM EDT] InvestorsLive with -1000 balance of sahres
[Aug 7, 2011 8:20:07 PM EDT] InvestorsLive only way to take that to 0 shares is to buy 1000 shares
[Aug 7, 2011 8:20:24 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you go flat, you’ve just re bought the same shares back for $2/share cheaper
[Aug 7, 2011 8:20:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive thus returning the borrowed shares back to the broker and pocketing the difference
[Aug 7, 2011 8:20:56 PM EDT] InvestorsLive So – this sorta recaps again last seminar
[Aug 7, 2011 8:20:59 PM EDT] InvestorsLive TYPES OF SHORTS
[Aug 7, 2011 8:21:06 PM EDT] InvestorsLive what charts do I like, what do I look for
[Aug 7, 2011 8:21:15 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Parabolic Shorts
[Aug 7, 2011 8:21:21 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Late Day Fades
[Aug 7, 2011 8:21:35 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and not really a category of their own – but … same concept old pumps
[Aug 7, 2011 8:21:52 PM EDT] InvestorsLive so we’ll start with Parabolic Shorts
[Aug 7, 2011 8:21:53 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Slide 8
[Aug 7, 2011 8:22:21 PM EDT] InvestorsLive You should mostly be familiar with this stuff – since we went over in depth few weeks back .. BUT after that seminar
[Aug 7, 2011 8:22:33 PM EDT] InvestorsLive we had ATRN and SAPX amongst others
[Aug 7, 2011 8:23:09 PM EDT] InvestorsLive All these questions below – ‘How, What if.. etc” all don’t have answers, we don’t know we just know there is a GOOD chance and there is more likely less risk vs. potential reward
[Aug 7, 2011 8:23:19 PM EDT] InvestorsLive So take slide 9 ATRN
[Aug 7, 2011 8:23:35 PM EDT] InvestorsLive the chart on slide 10 (in a min) is from the 26th
[Aug 7, 2011 8:23:47 PM EDT] InvestorsLive so the night before on scan I had a plan out re: ATRN
[Aug 7, 2011 8:24:02 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any gap up and run/parabolic I’m short biased
[Aug 7, 2011 8:24:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ATRN Daily Chart – Former Runner Yes, we knew it was a former runner But, does it usually hold gains? http://goo.gl/wgLKp
[Aug 7, 2011 8:24:42 PM EDT] InvestorsLive is it historically a piece of sh*t?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:24:51 PM EDT] InvestorsLive hell ya, all you had to do was look at the daily
[Aug 7, 2011 8:24:51 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you all know that
[Aug 7, 2011 8:25:11 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ATRN – July 26 th Trading Day http://goo.gl/Iak4g 9:30AM spike 50 cents out of the gate Huge prior day move
[Aug 7, 2011 8:25:41 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you can see right at the open parabolic move
[Aug 7, 2011 8:26:09 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Lemme cover SAPX too then I’ll open up for questions on these 2
[Aug 7, 2011 8:26:13 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Slide 12
[Aug 7, 2011 8:26:22 PM EDT] InvestorsLive this one is really picture perfect
[Aug 7, 2011 8:26:37 PM EDT] InvestorsLive http://goo.gl/4RzIE
[Aug 7, 2011 8:26:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive The biggest thing here $1 to $4.50
[Aug 7, 2011 8:26:57 PM EDT] InvestorsLive no profit taking
[Aug 7, 2011 8:27:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive not once – closed at highs
[Aug 7, 2011 8:27:09 PM EDT] InvestorsLive so if this thing pops, and starts to fade or hits red
[Aug 7, 2011 8:27:25 PM EDT] InvestorsLive this is the FIRST time
[Aug 7, 2011 8:27:32 PM EDT] InvestorsLive people have a ‘thought’ of even taking profits
[Aug 7, 2011 8:27:35 PM EDT] InvestorsLive before that it was all roses
[Aug 7, 2011 8:27:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive no sense to sell it was just going up
[Aug 7, 2011 8:27:49 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but now it pulled off its highs?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:27:51 PM EDT] InvestorsLive now its red?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:27:54 PM EDT] InvestorsLive what to do ?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:28:06 PM EDT] InvestorsLive http://goo.gl/q6fTb
[Aug 7, 2011 8:28:35 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Just picture perfect of everything we go over – nice breakou/spike right at the open
[Aug 7, 2011 8:28:57 PM EDT] InvestorsLive coupled with no profit taking the day before (which is JUST like my JBII trade on Friday, I’ll get to that too)
[Aug 7, 2011 8:29:08 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions on those 2 charts?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:29:27 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I know we’ve covered time and time again but SAPX is just the best picture perfect example
[Aug 7, 2011 8:29:34 PM EDT] InvestorsLive of the best case scenario, and we nailed it
[Aug 7, 2011 8:29:44 PM EDT] tradernyc So when do you take the short on the first down red candle?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:29:56 PM EDT] InvestorsLive right into the parabolic
[Aug 7, 2011 8:30:00 PM EDT] karen99 these moves seem to occur with 5 min of the market opening. I find a hard time to react, and by the time i do, it is on its way down.
[Aug 7, 2011 8:30:13 PM EDT] InvestorsLive well – you’ll get better
[Aug 7, 2011 8:30:22 PM EDT] InvestorsLive then when you’re better – you’ll have an edge
[Aug 7, 2011 8:30:37 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you should be prepared for it at night
[Aug 7, 2011 8:30:44 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you can always have a short lined up
[Aug 7, 2011 8:30:48 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and just press the trigger when you want
[Aug 7, 2011 8:30:58 PM EDT] ChopStockTrader they typically give clues in pre
[Aug 7, 2011 8:31:03 PM EDT] InvestorsLive yup
[Aug 7, 2011 8:31:09 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if they are going to be in play that day
[Aug 7, 2011 8:31:11 PM EDT] InvestorsLive or just a dead duck
[Aug 7, 2011 8:31:18 PM EDT] InvestorsLive exactly chop
[Aug 7, 2011 8:31:39 PM EDT] rude1 what clues to look for?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:31:49 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you don’t need clues
[Aug 7, 2011 8:31:50 PM EDT] InvestorsLive just do homework
[Aug 7, 2011 8:31:57 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I posted the scan from the night before
[Aug 7, 2011 8:32:04 PM EDT] InvestorsLive it said – parabolic at open interested in a short
[Aug 7, 2011 8:32:09 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ud ont need to search for clues
[Aug 7, 2011 8:32:23 PM EDT] -war- If it’s HTB and you know it’s a POS….do you just build into the short? Or do you specifically wait for the clue to short
[Aug 7, 2011 8:32:27 PM EDT] karen99 I have a plan, but it happens so quickly that I find I miss it. It is a lack of confidence or a second thought before pulling the trigger.
[Aug 7, 2011 8:32:32 PM EDT] tradernyc So homework being a scan correct.
[Aug 7, 2011 8:32:39 PM EDT] ChopStockTrader typically the need to just have pre action and fit into your plans
[Aug 7, 2011 8:33:05 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I’m more of an income trader war – I don’t really think days or weeks out altho I could hold these MSHL SAPX and BWOW from highs and bank $50k + more
[Aug 7, 2011 8:33:15 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but I like to see my trades and take them, I can control that
[Aug 7, 2011 8:33:20 PM EDT] -war- 10-4
[Aug 7, 2011 8:33:24 PM EDT] InvestorsLive it’ll come around karen
[Aug 7, 2011 8:33:28 PM EDT] karen99 i am sure i will get better. i am just saying what happens. because i have the plan, i want to double check and then a lot of times i am late
[Aug 7, 2011 8:33:38 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Slide 14 – VHC “Big” Chart – Parabolic This shows a breakout speeding up relative to prior action http://goo.gl/q3qui
[Aug 7, 2011 8:33:45 PM EDT] InvestorsLive just another example of the mid day move speeding up
[Aug 7, 2011 8:33:49 PM EDT] InvestorsLive same idea only not at open
[Aug 7, 2011 8:33:54 PM EDT] InvestorsLive this ended up selling off to $37 again
[Aug 7, 2011 8:34:00 PM EDT] InvestorsLive back down $4-5 bucks off the parabolic
[Aug 7, 2011 8:34:03 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR On SAPX, when it opens and you want to short. How do you know the 5.40 is the price vs say 5.20, what if it goes up to like 6.50
[Aug 7, 2011 8:34:23 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but again this is just to show you what I mean by a parabolic move RELATIVE to PRIOR PRICE ACTION
[Aug 7, 2011 8:34:46 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Game3- that’s why you are playing relative to the risk at hand
[Aug 7, 2011 8:35:02 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if it has a large range, you need to play size that makes sense
[Aug 7, 2011 8:35:17 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR Like scale into it
[Aug 7, 2011 8:35:19 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I am never in full size on a parabolic – like I’ve said before it’s just about taking advantage of the price action
[Aug 7, 2011 8:35:20 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR 1/4th etc..?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:35:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive right – by the time its ready to fade you have a padding and can play bigger size (potentially) or you just take the scalp
[Aug 7, 2011 8:35:41 PM EDT] Laura whatever you are comfortable with
[Aug 7, 2011 8:36:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Slide 15
[Aug 7, 2011 8:36:08 PM EDT] InvestorsLive IDCC no news – Text Book R/G Text book red/green long breakout Turns into a parabolic short opportunity http://goo.gl/XgFRN Just to give you visuals …
[Aug 7, 2011 8:36:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive dotted line = prior close
[Aug 7, 2011 8:36:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive so you can obviously see it gearing prior to red/green test
[Aug 7, 2011 8:36:44 PM EDT] InvestorsLive then bam pop – sell into spike (parabolic action)
[Aug 7, 2011 8:36:59 PM EDT] InvestorsLive also if didn’t play – again another opportunity to take advantage of price action
[Aug 7, 2011 8:37:18 PM EDT] InvestorsLive doesn’t mean you’re trading massive size on these, you’re playing relative to how its moving
[Aug 7, 2011 8:37:50 PM EDT] magagoba Can you give your entries as an example?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:37:54 PM EDT] sbbi98 when you say sell into spike, how to decide the entry point?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:38:08 PM EDT] jout8 it also doesn’t scare you out of the trade if you partials
[Aug 7, 2011 8:38:12 PM EDT] Laura his entries on on chat logs
[Aug 7, 2011 8:38:40 PM EDT] InvestorsLive magagoba – if you haven’t checked the new members page – great anticipation of red/green standard gearing
[Aug 7, 2011 8:38:41 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and pop on r/g
[Aug 7, 2011 8:38:57 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you may/may not nail the top – prob not
[Aug 7, 2011 8:39:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive it’s just one of those things
[Aug 7, 2011 8:39:12 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if you make a quick $1.50 a share on the parabolic
[Aug 7, 2011 8:39:33 PM EDT] InvestorsLive it’s just as greedy as you want to be, hold out for another $3 and end up falling back with it and making nothing
[Aug 7, 2011 8:39:40 PM EDT] InvestorsLive or not be greedy and take the quick bucks on parabolics
[Aug 7, 2011 8:39:44 PM EDT] InvestorsLive again, I trade for income
[Aug 7, 2011 8:39:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if I’m up real quick – I can take that profit, it’s mine
[Aug 7, 2011 8:40:00 PM EDT] InvestorsLive that’s why I trade, income.. profit.. $$
[Aug 7, 2011 8:40:10 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I don’t sit here saying well I’m up but what if it goes up more
[Aug 7, 2011 8:40:18 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I say, I nailed this trade, I’m taking the money
[Aug 7, 2011 8:40:25 PM EDT] tradernyc Like I did on Fri duh
[Aug 7, 2011 8:40:39 PM EDT] tradernyc Got to get into that mind set.
[Aug 7, 2011 8:40:51 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Question that was in the comment section
[Aug 7, 2011 8:40:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: If you have a parabolic move UP intraday with speed, should we look to start shorting small positions and average up towards the top of the parabolic or should we wait until it starts going back red to short the stock? I noticed you doing this on stocks very often: before they make a red move and are still going up strong you start shorting partial sizes .
[Aug 7, 2011 8:41:09 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Yes I start into them many times, I don’t call it averaging up I call it averaging in – if that’s the plan than you’re not ‘averaging down/up’ = negative connotation Once it breaks in the way you anticipated you can add with some padding ( ie : profit from your starter anticipating the move)
[Aug 7, 2011 8:42:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Last slide before late day fades — slide 17
[Aug 7, 2011 8:42:06 PM EDT] InvestorsLive all the what ifs, pretty much covered them
[Aug 7, 2011 8:42:18 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but what if it went higher, what if it spiked twice etc
[Aug 7, 2011 8:42:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive these parabolic moves are ones I average into – and/or just scalp smaller size
[Aug 7, 2011 8:42:44 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Size in relative to the risk at hand
[Aug 7, 2011 8:43:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if you just saw it move .50 cents, and you play 1k shares ….
[Aug 7, 2011 8:43:05 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you better be cool with $500 risk
[Aug 7, 2011 8:43:15 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if not, play 300 shares x .50 = $150ish risk
[Aug 7, 2011 8:43:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive that’s my thought process when deciding risk etc
[Aug 7, 2011 8:43:41 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Any questions so far before going to late day fades
[Aug 7, 2011 8:44:25 PM EDT] sbbi98 so using your example, if the price goes up 50 cent, you will stop out?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:44:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive no
[Aug 7, 2011 8:44:43 PM EDT] bvocal when you are watching a stock make a move up, do care one whit about the general market movement at that moment?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:44:43 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I’m just saying in general
[Aug 7, 2011 8:44:47 PM EDT] InvestorsLive size in accordingly
[Aug 7, 2011 8:44:52 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if that’s the risk at hand…
[Aug 7, 2011 8:44:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive than size in accordinly
[Aug 7, 2011 8:45:02 PM EDT] InvestorsLive it just showed you how fast it can move
[Aug 7, 2011 8:45:18 PM EDT] InvestorsLive so obviously you’re not playing 10k shares unless you’re risking $3-5k
[Aug 7, 2011 8:45:47 PM EDT] InvestorsLive bvocal – yes many times, if market is in gutter and I’m not really buying many breakouts
[Aug 7, 2011 8:46:04 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and/or stocks that look like they are fading and market flood gates pull … I’m more likely to hammer the short
[Aug 7, 2011 8:46:24 PM EDT] InvestorsLive just like VHC this past week related to the market – if didn’t see the calls on that just pull up past 2 days of logs
[Aug 7, 2011 8:46:34 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Slide 18 – Late day fades
[Aug 7, 2011 8:46:53 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Most of the times they are on my radar because they’ve been a big chart
[Aug 7, 2011 8:46:56 PM EDT] InvestorsLive big breakout, over extended
[Aug 7, 2011 8:47:06 PM EDT] InvestorsLive been up more days than down
[Aug 7, 2011 8:47:21 PM EDT] InvestorsLive no real pull – same ideas that I gave in the seminar (first one on new members page)
[Aug 7, 2011 8:47:34 PM EDT] InvestorsLive stuff like that PCYC that u just stalk
[Aug 7, 2011 8:48:37 PM EDT] InvestorsLive VHC a late day fader
[Aug 7, 2011 8:48:37 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Chart alone http://goo.gl/ENWkg Chart with some lines http://goo.gl/XskEq
[Aug 7, 2011 8:48:59 PM EDT] InvestorsLive stock with a prior dump, pulled back but you can see how it’s getting a bit top heavy
[Aug 7, 2011 8:49:06 PM EDT] InvestorsLive THIS IS WHAT I LOOK FOR
[Aug 7, 2011 8:49:16 PM EDT] InvestorsLive this gives you a reason to trade ….
[Aug 7, 2011 8:49:21 PM EDT] InvestorsLive an area to stop
[Aug 7, 2011 8:49:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive a PLAN
[Aug 7, 2011 8:49:26 PM EDT] tradernyc So you would take this short at 14:00 hour
[Aug 7, 2011 8:49:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive etc
[Aug 7, 2011 8:49:47 PM EDT] InvestorsLive no, more than likely around 13:15
[Aug 7, 2011 8:50:02 PM EDT] InvestorsLive failed to get higher highs
[Aug 7, 2011 8:50:09 PM EDT] InvestorsLive lower highs, then anticipate the green to red for 1/2 size
[Aug 7, 2011 8:50:19 PM EDT] InvestorsLive failed, re-test and break and add in short
[Aug 7, 2011 8:50:33 PM EDT] InvestorsLive stop if 31.50s don’t top
[Aug 7, 2011 8:51:27 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Slide 20
[Aug 7, 2011 8:51:29 PM EDT] InvestorsLive PNS
[Aug 7, 2011 8:51:30 PM EDT] InvestorsLive failed breakout
[Aug 7, 2011 8:51:40 PM EDT] bvocal How does time of up/down cycle and fading volume figure into your reckoning? Would you figure that at 13:15 it was time to go down…
[Aug 7, 2011 8:51:52 PM EDT] sbbi98 why not 12:35?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:52:16 PM EDT] InvestorsLive sure u could do 12:35 .. but I’m not a hindsight trader
[Aug 7, 2011 8:52:23 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I prob wouldnt have traded it at the pefect entry
[Aug 7, 2011 8:52:27 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but rather a 2nd or 3rd fail
[Aug 7, 2011 8:52:47 PM EDT] gmkuta the more fail, the better the chance?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:53:00 PM EDT] InvestorsLive same as what i said bvocal – fade action / nearing green to red / calculated risk etc – vol ya had faded off
[Aug 7, 2011 8:53:22 PM EDT] InvestorsLive no, just about coupling things together – I’m not looking to chase it down
[Aug 7, 2011 8:53:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if it failed to hold trend
[Aug 7, 2011 8:53:27 PM EDT] Laura hard to have perfect entry, I may be in before Nate, he may be in before me
[Aug 7, 2011 8:53:30 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and starts to look heavy
[Aug 7, 2011 8:53:37 PM EDT] InvestorsLive that’s the bottom line
[Aug 7, 2011 8:53:39 PM EDT] Laura and likewise for any trader
[Aug 7, 2011 8:54:04 PM EDT] InvestorsLive PNS Slide 20 – Failed Breakout Mid Day Breakout – hit a higher high, massive vol but failed to hold after 2PM Risk = HODs … start in (remember this stock is up from $1 ish – not just a random stock) http://goo.gl/KtFbA
[Aug 7, 2011 8:54:31 PM EDT] InvestorsLive a good example – u can see it had former support a few times around 12:30-1PM
[Aug 7, 2011 8:54:49 PM EDT] InvestorsLive then cracked – re-tested – topped again
[Aug 7, 2011 8:54:56 PM EDT] InvestorsLive at prior support, now top
[Aug 7, 2011 8:55:05 PM EDT] InvestorsLive can start into a short – you have a calculated risk
[Aug 7, 2011 8:55:14 PM EDT] InvestorsLive then go full size when it cracks earlier AM support
[Aug 7, 2011 8:55:27 PM EDT] InvestorsLive full size because u have a padding from earlier 1/2 size
[Aug 7, 2011 8:56:09 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: When shorting late day fades, how can one be sure not to be trapped in a particular stock’s day low. For example you see fades, and you short into them. You then realize what you had shorted was very close to day’s low, and as a result the stock is about to rebound, perhaps still stay in red for the day, but from the point you shorted, it might move. How would you know of a true fade, vs a stock just hiding day low and you result in risking the bounce up and squeezing you?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:56:21 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: Very easy – late day fades are not stocks at lows, they are stocks breaking mid day support They typically are “big” charts You go in once you can identify where you’d stop, so you’ll know your risk
[Aug 7, 2011 8:57:09 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: I have noticed sometimes in a late day fade the stock will make a tiny little green pop sometimes, do you recommend adding to the shorts in those pops or just cut losses short (especially if its above the price shorted at) and wait for it to go red again?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:57:24 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: What’s your plan? For me late day fades I am shorting because I see a calculated risk and channel top, I’m remaining short as long as that top holds Have a plan and stick to it … start in and average in on the anticipated crack
[Aug 7, 2011 8:57:48 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Same stuff as I just went over visually – just in question form
[Aug 7, 2011 8:57:52 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions about Late Day fade types?
[Aug 7, 2011 8:58:20 PM EDT] tradernyc it seems so simple.
[Aug 7, 2011 8:58:41 PM EDT] InvestorsLive its as difficult as you make it
[Aug 7, 2011 8:58:53 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Slide 23 – related to Old pumpers
[Aug 7, 2011 8:58:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive this week we had 2
[Aug 7, 2011 8:58:59 PM EDT] InvestorsLive JBII and JAMN
[Aug 7, 2011 8:59:00 PM EDT] InvestorsLive nailed both
[Aug 7, 2011 8:59:17 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Old Pumps JBII – the chart that will make you go … uh huh! http://goo.gl/BkfQM Straight up last 30 min Friday – no profit taking First sign of it … Everyone sells
[Aug 7, 2011 8:59:35 PM EDT] InvestorsLive 3 images there so u can see them all together
[Aug 7, 2011 8:59:54 PM EDT] InvestorsLive JBII u can see prior top at $3 – but June and July this was JBII support
[Aug 7, 2011 8:59:56 PM EDT] InvestorsLive always bounced off it
[Aug 7, 2011 9:00:07 PM EDT] InvestorsLive now it’s under it, so you know good chance if it DOES break
[Aug 7, 2011 9:00:15 PM EDT] InvestorsLive it’s going to prob pop then come back under
[Aug 7, 2011 9:00:25 PM EDT] InvestorsLive BUT
[Aug 7, 2011 9:00:33 PM EDT] InvestorsLive more importantly, look at the chart on the right
[Aug 7, 2011 9:00:40 PM EDT] InvestorsLive the day before into close it popped straight into close
[Aug 7, 2011 9:00:45 PM EDT] InvestorsLive NO PROFIT TAKING
[Aug 7, 2011 9:01:20 PM EDT] InvestorsLive then Monday
[Aug 7, 2011 9:01:24 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I mean Friday sorry
[Aug 7, 2011 9:01:27 PM EDT] InvestorsLive the chart at the bottom
[Aug 7, 2011 9:01:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive it gapped up
[Aug 7, 2011 9:01:33 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and ran straight up
[Aug 7, 2011 9:01:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive still no profit taking
[Aug 7, 2011 9:01:46 PM EDT] InvestorsLive sped up .20 cents real quick
[Aug 7, 2011 9:01:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I short into it 2.87 when I called it in the room
[Aug 7, 2011 9:02:14 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I’m sure in chat many were like, waoh, why .. how .. that was like perfect .. wtf
[Aug 7, 2011 9:02:21 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but now with the pictures – make more sense?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:02:25 PM EDT] InvestorsLive why I was biased and short there?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:02:30 PM EDT] rude1 yes
[Aug 7, 2011 9:02:52 PM EDT] InvestorsLive the first pull back was the first reason for anyone to sell
[Aug 7, 2011 9:02:57 PM EDT] InvestorsLive before that it kept going straight up
[Aug 7, 2011 9:03:08 PM EDT] InvestorsLive think about it, if you long a stock at open and it goes straight up
[Aug 7, 2011 9:03:13 PM EDT] InvestorsLive sure u can hold
[Aug 7, 2011 9:03:27 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but if it starts to pull back, you’re first though is, hmmm do I hold, … sell… wait…
[Aug 7, 2011 9:03:31 PM EDT] InvestorsLive take some off etc
[Aug 7, 2011 9:03:44 PM EDT] InvestorsLive JAMN – another pumper
[Aug 7, 2011 9:04:04 PM EDT] InvestorsLive http://goo.gl/qBSg1
[Aug 7, 2011 9:04:20 PM EDT] InvestorsLive too much too soon
[Aug 7, 2011 9:04:31 PM EDT] InvestorsLive stock with that amount of paper cannot sustain that move without a pull back
[Aug 7, 2011 9:04:37 PM EDT] InvestorsLive that stock broke out from .85 to 1.20 the day before
[Aug 7, 2011 9:04:46 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I was HOPING it’d gap up to short into but it didn’t
[Aug 7, 2011 9:04:53 PM EDT] InvestorsLive first reason for people to sell, now its toast
[Aug 7, 2011 9:05:31 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: I always read in your scan that if a certain stock has parabolic move up, you short more into it, and consequently, if it has a morning wash out you sell into it. How come, the same method can’t be done for long positions. On wash outs, you average down, and on spikes you sell into?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:05:52 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: Seems like a misunderstanding. I barely if ever sell into a morning wash, I can’t remember the last time I’ve even done that. I do use the same method for long positions just like I post each night on scan with my biases. I am SHORT BIASED on gap up and parabolic on high daily rangers that we’ve been playing.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:06:10 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I am LONG biased in two ways, gap down and washout to scoop for a long scalp or weak open and mid perk off support for an anticipating of red to green Also to correct you, I do not average down, I average in. If you average down that means you didn’t have a plan to do so, when I anticipate not NAILING the actual trade but having to work into the position due to the risk I will state that much like VHC. I will snag some 1/5 .. 1/4 etc … with a WIDE stop and once I get a feel for it start working in with size.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:07:19 PM EDT] InvestorsLive forgot to link MIPS chart
[Aug 7, 2011 9:07:19 PM EDT] Laura Also to correct you, I do not average down, I average in. If you average down that means you didn’t have a plan to do so,
[Aug 7, 2011 9:07:24 PM EDT] Laura read that again
[Aug 7, 2011 9:07:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive lemme see
[Aug 7, 2011 9:07:51 PM EDT] InvestorsLive oh yea
[Aug 7, 2011 9:07:53 PM EDT] InvestorsLive important
[Aug 7, 2011 9:08:07 PM EDT] InvestorsLive to the person who asked that question
[Aug 7, 2011 9:08:40 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if I’m adding stock at a lower price, it’s because I had a plan to do so
[Aug 7, 2011 9:08:47 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if not that’s called averaging down
[Aug 7, 2011 9:08:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and that’s no good
[Aug 7, 2011 9:09:08 PM EDT] Laura averaging down to “hope” is a recipe for disaster
[Aug 7, 2011 9:09:19 PM EDT] InvestorsLive MIPS a perfect example Friday – of a gap down and washout
[Aug 7, 2011 9:09:22 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and NAILED the entry
[Aug 7, 2011 9:09:23 PM EDT] InvestorsLive quick scalp
[Aug 7, 2011 9:09:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive as I’ve said in prior seminars
[Aug 7, 2011 9:09:34 PM EDT] InvestorsLive first 15 MINUTES for me
[Aug 7, 2011 9:09:37 PM EDT] InvestorsLive = SCALPS
[Aug 7, 2011 9:09:46 PM EDT] InvestorsLive then I let trades set up
[Aug 7, 2011 9:09:54 PM EDT] tradernyc maybe seminar on scalping in 2 weeks?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:10:06 PM EDT] InvestorsLive nah
[Aug 7, 2011 9:10:10 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you can scalp when ur ready
[Aug 7, 2011 9:10:21 PM EDT] InvestorsLive anyway – last slide
[Aug 7, 2011 9:10:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I think I forgot the answer on there
[Aug 7, 2011 9:10:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Here is MIPS chart: http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/YNBMTAMJLQ.png
[Aug 7, 2011 9:10:59 PM EDT] Laura not using intraday charts on last slide
[Aug 7, 2011 9:11:16 PM EDT] Laura unless they think daily means 1 day chart
[Aug 7, 2011 9:11:56 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions on what I’ve gone over so far tonight – otherwise I’ll move on to the member questions
[Aug 7, 2011 9:12:05 PM EDT] sbbi98 so if you found the average-ins did not work as planed, when would you stop out?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:12:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive when your plan was to do so…
[Aug 7, 2011 9:12:32 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you have a risk you take on each trade
[Aug 7, 2011 9:12:34 PM EDT] InvestorsLive you have a stop limit
[Aug 7, 2011 9:12:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive stick to it
[Aug 7, 2011 9:12:42 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if you don’t .. develop one
[Aug 7, 2011 9:12:51 PM EDT] tradernyc How do you reserve shares? Do you always need to reserve?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:12:56 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions on topic to what we covered tonight on slides so far?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:13:17 PM EDT] sbbi98 any guideline for setting the risk?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:13:33 PM EDT] InvestorsLive every broker is different – you can ask your broker tradernyc – please keep on pt. will open up later
[Aug 7, 2011 9:13:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive set a price $200 $300 max risk
[Aug 7, 2011 9:13:43 PM EDT] tradernyc sorry
[Aug 7, 2011 9:13:45 PM EDT] InvestorsLive whatever u want
[Aug 7, 2011 9:13:59 PM EDT] rude1 was JBII on your nightly watch list?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:14:03 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR What went wrong on that Jamn 40K loss
[Aug 7, 2011 9:14:12 PM EDT] InvestorsLive no rude – just saw it on scan b/c we saw it in chat Thursday
[Aug 7, 2011 9:14:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive so familiar with the chart
[Aug 7, 2011 9:14:29 PM EDT] InvestorsLive all about charting stocks
[Aug 7, 2011 9:14:42 PM EDT] InvestorsLive alright moving on to member questions:
[Aug 7, 2011 9:14:43 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: Earlier this week you held a partial s/s position o/n. What indicators do you like to see when holding a s/s position o/n versus closing it out eod?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:14:53 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: Depends what the plan is going in, what’s your plan – do you need a big short setting up? Is it a POS low float that was just pumped because low floats have been hot? (ie: MSHL) does it have a history of selling off the very next day? If you go in for a potential swing than try it, if you go in as a daytrade and want to hold over because you’re down – then forget it. Stick with your plan, I had a plan going in, I stuck to it.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:15:08 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions related?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:15:22 PM EDT] tradernyc all good
[Aug 7, 2011 9:15:46 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: I have the EF account, but don’t find myself using the Level 2 all that much? I focus mainly on price action and chart(daily and six months…couldn’t find the 1 minute ones you speak of)…however have been struggling with entry points. 1. Any suggestions on how I can improve entries on shorts? 2. Do I need the 1 min charts and Level 2?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:16:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive This is totally up to you. Level 2 is something that comes over time – you may find it helps you or not at all. I rarely use it in Nasdaq as much as I do in OTCs – but I still have it up, it’s just something I have always had.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:16:08 PM EDT] InvestorsLive As you know I use DAS Trader for charting – if you’re using EquityFeed for charting (which I do not suggest) you’ll just need to use the pull down box and put it on 1 min on the Full Montage.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:16:41 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions related?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:17:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: What are the differences in shorting “Pump & Dumps” vs “Former Runners”. At which point do you short each, and what do they have in common, and what do they differ? They both seem to really pull the carpet under your leg as big moves happen very quick. At the same time, do you not miss the big drops they have from the top?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:17:20 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: There isn’t really a difference, if you’re shorting former runners that have a history of dropping or a pumper that is over extended – it’s just that.. over extended. If you’re just shorting randomly because it’s a pump then that’s not a strategy .. maybe one day you’ll get LEXG’d. I stick to the shorts I went over earlier. I short price action no matter what it is, parabolic action, late day fades.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:17:48 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions related?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:17:52 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR no
[Aug 7, 2011 9:17:58 PM EDT] Laura More of you newbs need to run Mudd’s dayranger scan nightly to find the runners.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:18:16 PM EDT] Laura A year later you will be surprised by how many former runners you know.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:18:27 PM EDT] InvestorsLive yup
[Aug 7, 2011 9:18:27 PM EDT] -war- yes, question on the para short
[Aug 7, 2011 9:18:35 PM EDT] InvestorsLive once you see it once – u should remember
[Aug 7, 2011 9:18:37 PM EDT] InvestorsLive sure -war
[Aug 7, 2011 9:18:55 PM EDT] -war- is there a way that you can avoid getting ORS’d…meaning a para that lasts several days?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:19:03 PM EDT] -war- meaning
[Aug 7, 2011 9:19:25 PM EDT] -war- is there a way that you can tell when a para is just a “daily” para vs. a para that’s could last several days
[Aug 7, 2011 9:19:40 PM EDT] InvestorsLive nah that’s why I try to take over extended charts
[Aug 7, 2011 9:19:46 PM EDT] InvestorsLive that have been up a few days already
[Aug 7, 2011 9:19:56 PM EDT] InvestorsLive and once they are up .. and parabolic off their already extended chart
[Aug 7, 2011 9:19:57 PM EDT] Laura exactly
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive gravity becomes a factor
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:10 PM EDT] ChopStockTrader people need to learn to program stockfetcher and play around with RFR to learn why stocks show up on Muddys scan
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:12 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but yes, sure – sh*t can keep going – but that’s where your rules come in
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:15 PM EDT] InvestorsLive stick to your rules, you’re good
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:21 PM EDT] -war- i see
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:23 PM EDT] InvestorsLive don’t and get AVVC’d
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:35 PM EDT] -war- oh boy…let’s not talk about that
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:42 PM EDT] InvestorsLive lol
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:49 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any other questions related to last question?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:50 PM EDT] jout8 bad taste
[Aug 7, 2011 9:20:57 PM EDT] Laura and don’t try to call the top, wait for it to start coming to you.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:21:09 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR What a good question whoever asked that.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:21:10 PM EDT] InvestorsLive yes – don’t short random HODs
[Aug 7, 2011 9:21:11 PM EDT] tradernyc IL you say t stick to your rules so before going into any trade I should know when I will sell already?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:21:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive sure
[Aug 7, 2011 9:21:32 PM EDT] InvestorsLive where you’d like to sell
[Aug 7, 2011 9:21:43 PM EDT] dieselpowered Do you have a system for remembering former runners? Such as a printed list or is it something that just sticks in your mind?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:21:48 PM EDT] InvestorsLive but more importantly, where you’d stop if you were WRONG
[Aug 7, 2011 9:21:58 PM EDT] InvestorsLive yes, system for former runners = chart scans each night
[Aug 7, 2011 9:22:13 PM EDT] tradernyc That is where I make mistakes hold on like its my life and cant take a loss!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:22:19 PM EDT] InvestorsLive system for former runners = pull up charts
[Aug 7, 2011 9:22:25 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: I like to review the chat logs after the trading day and compare what is said to the applicable charts. for example, friday at 9:35:19 you stated ” shorted some lnkd “. looking at the 1 minute chart, i see a lower high than your entry. can you go over this scenario including the reason for your exit?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:22:34 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: It’s big range had settled down a bit and started having lower highs Not greedy – quick first 5 minute trade up $1k I won’t look back, start off the day right and work on finding the next trade. Took profits into the washout – about $6-7 dollars too early, o well
[Aug 7, 2011 9:23:11 PM EDT] InvestorsLive keep in mind I was only in like 300 vs. my normal 500-1k + so made a quick $1k on small shares I was happy as can be, was expecting to slowly add in up to 1k
[Aug 7, 2011 9:23:18 PM EDT] InvestorsLive instead .. as I said earlier today I trade for income
[Aug 7, 2011 9:23:21 PM EDT] InvestorsLive its 3 min trade
[Aug 7, 2011 9:23:26 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I’m up $1k
[Aug 7, 2011 9:23:31 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I’m not greedy – I’ll take it
[Aug 7, 2011 9:23:45 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions related?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:24:18 PM EDT] cablestarman IL trading for income vs what?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:24:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive vs. waiting it out
[Aug 7, 2011 9:24:40 PM EDT] InvestorsLive see where it goes
[Aug 7, 2011 9:24:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I’m up $1k in 3 minutes, you gotta be an idiot not to lock some in
[Aug 7, 2011 9:25:02 PM EDT] InvestorsLive or just greedy
[Aug 7, 2011 9:25:15 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any other questions related?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:25:17 PM EDT] gmkuta is it possible that these set ups may change or evolve over time?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:25:32 PM EDT] InvestorsLive sure – I’m always learning
[Aug 7, 2011 9:25:43 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: I can’t get many stocks from fidelity online (find this annoying). I have to call for them to get them tagged to my account. I try to do my homework the night before and have a game plan. I call into fidelity early before the market opens to get the stocks tagged to my account so I have them in case I want to short them. A lot of times when I call, I get maybe 6 out of 10 that i am interested in. Some aren’t available, so I can’t short them. If I ask for 10, and get 6, i might use 2 or 3 through out the day. But at least I know I have them. I find it annoying, but this is the only way for me to get them. Question: Is there a better way?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:25:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: No, that’s pretty good – getting 60% of your hard to borrow requested stocks is awesome. Essentially, you find profiting annoying? Comon! It’s part of the game, I get up put in my borrow request and hopefully get them and heck .. many times don’t – but it’s worth the try.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:26:17 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions related?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:26:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Similiarly
[Aug 7, 2011 9:26:40 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: The other issue I have is when there is an alert in the chatroom, and I would like to short, if i can’t get it right away online, by the time I call fidelity and they find the shares, it is normally to late. So i feel i miss many opportunities.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:26:47 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: Rather than waiting until it’s too late if you see a high day ranger starting to pop and you know … hey … I bet we short that later on … why not make the call then rather than wait ’til you see someone else short it?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:26:57 PM EDT] Laura yeah IB doesn’t have a lot, tho they are better than a lot for borrows
[Aug 7, 2011 9:27:47 PM EDT] sbbi98 which brokers can reserve short for you, except fidelity?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:27:48 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Another on topic: QUESTION: What broker has the best shorts? The one where I have my account apparently doesn’t have a lot of shorts that have come up in chat. Doesn’t have LNKD! Also, for the PNK stocks I can only see the numbers delayed 15 minutes. I don’t see how I could make any kind of play connected with those stocks if I am seeing delayed quotes.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:27:53 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: There isn’t one broker that has the best shorts, it’s having a variety. Broad Street has been great all around for people with smaller $$ and who can’t spread it across different brokers and have $25k+ in each one. IB is great for OTCs etc. Just having a bunch of different is the best thing, with different clearing brokers. If they are all Penson based for example, having 10 Penson brokers is not going to help you. Find out if you can reserve, if you can .. then maybe you can get. You’re probably not subscribed to a pink sheet quote feed, if you’re going to trade them I’d definitely suggest it. That’s an easy fix, ask your broker.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:28:12 PM EDT] InvestorsLive not sure “all” sbbi98 – many can – just ask your broker – that’s easy for you to do and find out
[Aug 7, 2011 9:28:40 PM EDT] InvestorsLive it’s all about a variety of brokers – it’s not just having the ‘best’ broker
[Aug 7, 2011 9:28:46 PM EDT] sbbi98 i want to open accounts with those brokers.. i only have IB now
[Aug 7, 2011 9:29:13 PM EDT] karen99 The reason i find it annoying, i thought i was the only one getting 60% of my requests. Didn’t know that was normal
[Aug 7, 2011 9:29:24 PM EDT] Irukandji Always wondered, what’s in it for the person lending the shares? Just a premium?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:29:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive all know of Broad Street you need as little as $5-10k … great availability many times and not much to open – if it’s not your main broker still good side prop firm
[Aug 7, 2011 9:29:58 PM EDT] InvestorsLive sure, they can lend out shares and get $ for it, u check that on IB when u sign up
[Aug 7, 2011 9:30:18 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any further questions related?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:30:30 PM EDT] tradernyc Regarding BST can u keep stock overnight?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:30:32 PM EDT] InvestorsLive its all about variety ……. all about it
[Aug 7, 2011 9:30:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive 1 may have .. 1 doesn’t …
[Aug 7, 2011 9:30:42 PM EDT] InvestorsLive 3 don’t .. 4th does
[Aug 7, 2011 9:30:42 PM EDT] InvestorsLive etc
[Aug 7, 2011 9:30:51 PM EDT] Beige Broad Street lets you short with that small amount of money? I thought they all required margin accounts and putting $25,000 in for shorting ….
[Aug 7, 2011 9:30:56 PM EDT] BearNine not hard to borrow stocks
[Aug 7, 2011 9:31:07 PM EDT] InvestorsLive BST is a prop firm, it’s meant for traders – they have good borrows but .. if you hold over night some of the fees are way crazy
[Aug 7, 2011 9:31:16 PM EDT] InvestorsLive which is fine and I think better
[Aug 7, 2011 9:31:18 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR Are we done with the questions?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:31:20 PM EDT] InvestorsLive forces people to treat it like a trading firm
[Aug 7, 2011 9:31:42 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any further questions related to the brokers/HTBs
[Aug 7, 2011 9:31:45 PM EDT] Laura BearNine!!!!!!!!!!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:31:56 PM EDT] StockTiger so BST, IB , FIDEL any other good oens
[Aug 7, 2011 9:32:02 PM EDT] StockTiger ones*
[Aug 7, 2011 9:32:28 PM EDT] InvestorsLive lots always just open up try ’em out I have like 8 + maybe 10 I dont even know
[Aug 7, 2011 9:32:31 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: Also could you shed some light on the uptick rule as it is unclear as to when and how it applies from what I have read.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:32:38 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: Google helps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uptick_rule just as I say in chat when it’s on certain stocks, in a nutshell you just can’t hit the bid with a short, you have to fill on the offer (ie: into an uptick)
[Aug 7, 2011 9:32:54 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: When you get stopped out of a late day fade set up because it breaks hod, at this point would you consider going long?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:32:55 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: When it sets up as a long play that I’m familiar with like the seminar covering gearing, perking and long set ups.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:32:56 PM EDT] sbbi98 IS BST SPIC issured?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:33:12 PM EDT] InvestorsLive the firm as a whole is
[Aug 7, 2011 9:33:14 PM EDT] InvestorsLive not individually
[Aug 7, 2011 9:33:16 PM EDT] InvestorsLive its a prop firm
[Aug 7, 2011 9:33:23 PM EDT] InvestorsLive u can go to the website
[Aug 7, 2011 9:33:36 PM EDT] InvestorsLive broadstreet international or broad street securities group
[Aug 7, 2011 9:33:50 PM EDT] tradernyc Tell them IL referred you you will get special attention!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:33:59 PM EDT] tradernyc no joke!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:34:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: When i short into parabolic, or long spikedowns, it seems it keeps going in the original direction and i get stopped out. i know you only use candles and volume, but do you have specific rules of when to enter? For example, if its running on news you might not short into a spike?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:34:04 PM EDT] sbbi98 thx..
[Aug 7, 2011 9:34:04 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: I rarely if ever short into long spike downs (aka washouts). So, not sure if there is a misunderstanding there but that’s not anything I’ve gone over nor suggest. If anything, IF it’s a beat chart I will be long biased into a washout, IF IF IF the chart is beat.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:34:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: At which point in time in a short position do you take the loss, move on and switch hands and position for a long etc..? Also I notice when you are long, you always mention a stop loss price right after going into the position. I’ve barely or maybe even never seen you mention a stop loss price on a short position? How come that would be the case having a stop loss on every long position, but not much on shorts?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:35:02 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I rarely flip flop, if I was in a position and I am wrong, than I stop out where I planned to stop out. If I have having an exceptionally good day I may extend a loss a little bit if I think I am going to be over all right … and let it slip a few hundred bucks more. So the stop loss is based on where the prior top was .. how over extended the chart is or how beat it may be …. all depends on range and the position size I am in.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:35:39 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions related?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:35:43 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR Thanks
[Aug 7, 2011 9:35:53 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: Should members with small accounts under 10K or even lower, short stocks on the scan such as LNKD. Given their price, despite the position size, sometimes it seems the risk is far outweighs the reward when you have very small position as by the time you get out, you may not have even covered your commission, that’s including being on the RIGHT side of the trade. Your thoughts on expensive stocks as shorts, for small account members?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:36:02 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: Making a good trade is more important than thinking there is more risk. You ask every day about commissions, I think if you start focusing on better trade set ups and less about commissions you’ll more than likely do better. Commissions is part of the game, in the end if you make good trades their just a small piece. Whether you play 50 shares and make $5/share on LNKD or $250 … or 1k shares and make $5k on the trade – it’s still a profitable trade. If you’re really this concerned about commissions you need to switch to per share rate. Seems like you’re more worried about that than making a good trade.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:36:24 PM EDT] InvestorsLive any questions related?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:37:24 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: Hi, I’ve noticed this past week, you’ve been more long biased buying a lot of the dips (PCS), scaling into positions (VHC) and they have rewarded you very well etc…. Going through the scan right now, it seems you are looking for big wash outs, to buy on the dips. Is the risk/reward better when the market drops like this, as a result giving you the opportunity to make easier faster money on dips?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:37:35 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: Is PCS chart beat? is VHC chart beat? Remember check daily charts .. many times your answer is right in front of you.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:38:02 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR But everything is beat right now
[Aug 7, 2011 9:38:21 PM EDT] InvestorsLive guess you still haven’t pulled up the charts
[Aug 7, 2011 9:38:51 PM EDT] OTCtrader these have 50% haircuts.. DOW not down 50%
[Aug 7, 2011 9:39:18 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR OTC, makes sense
[Aug 7, 2011 9:39:23 PM EDT] InvestorsLive QUESTION: I learned a lot tonight at the seminar – I really want to write a review about the chat room, where can i?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:39:27 PM EDT] InvestorsLive ANSWER: http://investimonials.com/websites/reviews-investors-underground-live-trading-chatroom.aspx
[Aug 7, 2011 9:39:32 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Great question !!!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:39:38 PM EDT] jout8 haha
[Aug 7, 2011 9:39:42 PM EDT] tradernyc Osem one wonder who asked it
[Aug 7, 2011 9:39:44 PM EDT] tradernyc Lol
[Aug 7, 2011 9:39:50 PM EDT] Beige Youdon’t seem to short the general ETFS like QQQ, do you?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:40:02 PM EDT] InvestorsLive nope
[Aug 7, 2011 9:40:07 PM EDT] WB151 This is about fear and scalping. Fear that you don’t want to lose on a trade and you scalp because you want to lock in a gain instead of a loss. I am great at getting good entries. But I scalp for small gains when many times I could get $.20 -$.50 How do you set your targets? Should I mainly play around the whole #’s?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:40:33 PM EDT] InvestorsLive scale out just like you scale in
[Aug 7, 2011 9:40:38 PM EDT] InvestorsLive no reason you can’t sell 1/3 or 1/2
[Aug 7, 2011 9:41:16 PM EDT] Beige Why don’t you short the general ETFS? (Or play their opposites?)
[Aug 7, 2011 9:41:37 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I stick to what I’m good at
[Aug 7, 2011 9:41:41 PM EDT] 19RobH74 Doesn’t that limit you if ur in the PDT rule scaling?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:41:53 PM EDT] lorenzo2win do these ‘borrows’ have a time limit?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:41:59 PM EDT] InvestorsLive get prop firm if under PDT
[Aug 7, 2011 9:42:05 PM EDT] InvestorsLive reserved borrows good for the day
[Aug 7, 2011 9:42:18 PM EDT] InvestorsLive Thazzzzzzzzzzzzzz it guys – any other questions I can help with http://www.investorsunderground.com/2011/08/07/scans-for-080811-from-InvestorsLive/
[Aug 7, 2011 9:42:22 PM EDT] InvestorsLive scan for tomorrow
[Aug 7, 2011 9:42:34 PM EDT] tradernyc great seminar!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:42:37 PM EDT] bvocal Thank you all very much.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:42:37 PM EDT] tradernyc Thanks IL!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:42:49 PM EDT] lorenzo2win yes, thanks
[Aug 7, 2011 9:42:51 PM EDT] 19RobH74 thanks IL great seminar thanks again
[Aug 7, 2011 9:42:58 PM EDT] Beige thank you so much. I learned a lot.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:43:01 PM EDT] spazztrader thanks
[Aug 7, 2011 9:43:05 PM EDT] chandu Thx
[Aug 7, 2011 9:43:11 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR Sanks
[Aug 7, 2011 9:43:28 PM EDT] sbbi98 thx
[Aug 7, 2011 9:43:33 PM EDT] dieselpowered Thank You
[Aug 7, 2011 9:43:41 PM EDT] rude1 thanks Nate!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:43:43 PM EDT] Irukandji Thank you, will watch again after it’s up…
[Aug 7, 2011 9:43:50 PM EDT] gmkuta much luv
[Aug 7, 2011 9:43:52 PM EDT] mtrading08 When will you post the seminar up
[Aug 7, 2011 9:44:09 PM EDT] trexed11 Excelllent thank you
[Aug 7, 2011 9:44:14 PM EDT] rwaters254 You are the man again Nate, and Laura -you are the Lady lol
[Aug 7, 2011 9:44:31 PM EDT] rwaters254 night and good luck to all in the morning-
[Aug 7, 2011 9:44:56 PM EDT] magagoba Thank you.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:45:06 PM EDT] Laura <<<<<< Lady ::ohmy
[Aug 7, 2011 9:45:10 PM EDT] Laura ty
[Aug 7, 2011 9:45:37 PM EDT] sbbi98 Nate, what is long spike down?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:45:47 PM EDT] jout8 washout
[Aug 7, 2011 9:46:08 PM EDT] InvestorsLive not a pin drop but a ………….
[Aug 7, 2011 9:46:10 PM EDT] Laura I’ve decided I MUST be called Lady L from now on
[Aug 7, 2011 9:46:13 PM EDT] InvestorsLive shoooooooooooooop!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:46:31 PM EDT] mtrading08 Can you post the semiar Log please
[Aug 7, 2011 9:46:49 PM EDT] tradernyc all on dashboard
[Aug 7, 2011 9:46:58 PM EDT] tradernyc sorry not yet
[Aug 7, 2011 9:47:01 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I always do post it, can I breath first?
[Aug 7, 2011 9:47:06 PM EDT] Laura really
[Aug 7, 2011 9:47:12 PM EDT] Laura give him a few minutes/hours
[Aug 7, 2011 9:47:15 PM EDT] 19RobH74 lol
[Aug 7, 2011 9:47:16 PM EDT] tradernyc Yea give him some air lol!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:47:25 PM EDT] tradernyc instant gratifcation here lol!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:47:39 PM EDT] Laura he’s been yapping non stop for a couple hours, he needs a drink
[Aug 7, 2011 9:47:45 PM EDT] mtrading08 LOL OK
[Aug 7, 2011 9:47:50 PM EDT] jout8 ha
[Aug 7, 2011 9:48:11 PM EDT] jout8 tommorows gonna be a good one!!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:48:47 PM EDT] tradernyc see you guys tommorow! Thanks again for all the hard work you put into seminars IL!
[Aug 7, 2011 9:48:55 PM EDT] Laura <<<<<<<< Shakes head, you youngens. I did computers before you were born. HAHA, on punchcards, lol.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:49:34 PM EDT] rude1 I remember those….. blah…
[Aug 7, 2011 9:51:34 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR Nate or Laura, I’m long on SCSS at 16.00 (300 Shares), I scaled into more position of 200 shares at 14.25. Right now, I hold 500 shares at 15.25 avrage. I’m usually in select 1K shares, but the stock’s chart has been beat, and I don’t know if at this point I should scale in more, or if I should pull the plug and take a loss. It’s currently trading at 13.00 which makes me take a 1Kish loss, wnated to get your opinion. The company has great fundementals, and long term looks great, but I have a lot of money tied up in it, and don’t know.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:52:07 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I’m not a long term trader
[Aug 7, 2011 9:52:09 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I’m a day trader
[Aug 7, 2011 9:52:14 PM EDT] InvestorsLive I’d stick to your plan
[Aug 7, 2011 9:52:17 PM EDT] InvestorsLive if you were wrong, be wrong
[Aug 7, 2011 9:52:52 PM EDT] GAM3-OVR I sclap it for 200-300 usually, but the price has really moved from my focus. However, I’m not fully in it, as in I can scale in, but I don’t want to turn a -1K into a -2K.
[Aug 7, 2011 9:53:04 PM EDT] InvestorsLive well at least u know how to prevent that
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