Seminar Notes – Will Post Chat Logs After

by | Feb 12, 2012

When do you use mental stops as opposed to physical stops?  Is this different when trading OTC/PK vs. higher priced stocks?

I use mental stops, period.

I always end up with moving and moving my limit orders so it would finally be better to place market right at the beginning.

I  wanted to know how you figure out when to s/s CIE today? Did you have any idea why it was topping out and also how far down it could go?

How about with CIE, where it was grinding and not doing the parabolic. How did you do that $35.80 may had been the top or pretty close to it at least?

You don’t know when it’s going to top … They key is to focus on the price action it was moving up …obviously. It started to magnet around $35 when I had made my early comments and started into it to get a feel and the play was WAIT until $35 drops and forms a ceiling at $35 and then add on the fade under $35 BUT as we saw it DIDN’T form a ceiling at $35 and broke right back over it. I had suggested to take profits into the wash since the first pull under $35 was a quick .50-70 cents per share – and about 4 times I said DO NOT just think it’s has to go down because it’s up we need to see topping action.

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/HPKYCYNLCB.png

They key is to focus on where it’s hovering around once it slows it’s move – let it steadily trend up and don’t try to guess a top. Wait for the sideways price action and watch it over/under the # you can always start in and carry a wide stop and then once it’s put in a lower high -re-tested prior high and failed and faded off then you can add in with a stop near highs – scale in accordingly. If you’re not ok with it going back up to highs you’re in too big.

Chart leading up to it: http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/OIHAFUJZYJ.png

Lower high: http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/ZBVPFMVEDS.png


At what point on morning parabolic do you know that perhaps the top has been put in for a possible full reversal or at least some downside. 

You can always get a feel with some smaller size if you do just that, play relatively small so you’re in it and focusing on the price action more. As you know trading is trading but until you have money in the game you’re rather emotionless so when I start in … it gets me a feel and gets be focused on nailing the big move. Sometimes new members PM me “I shorted with you but I’m down and scared etc” and they’re already in full size I bring this up because…   to answer the question there is 2 ways:

1. Start in, get a feel  snag some, then if any big parabolic snag a bit more STAYING SMALL relative to what you’d typically play and then once it fades and you have a cushion to add in a full size for the real pull back.

2. If you are one of those people who find yourself shorting full size when it’s a starter position go with option $2. Let a stock test, re-test, fade again and once it has failed to reverse base your short off the HOD or prior high and size accordingly (OK if it goes back to prior high I’ll be down $250 which is reasonable and I’ll cut it off) … that’s your RISK. But at least you’ve let it get into a downtrend first before trying to guess the top and get crushed.

VISUAL: http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/ZJHJBKOJFX.png

Lastly much like CIE where you see it gravitating around $35 over/under and making a firm bottom for the push to $36 over/under like we saw on Friday on the way back down keep in mind that $35 was FORMER SUPPORT so it may act as a bottom BUT if it cracks TYPICALLY you’ll get a faster washout since everyone who was long given the support at $35 will be bailing.

—-

For your scan with the possibility of the weak opening and then r/g how would you react if it was already going full green from the start? would you chase it?

Let’s talk about the weak open first and the chart. We’re in a big market right now – just because things go up doesn’t make them shorts. In fact, it rarely makes them shorts until they over extend and then some! (At least in this market) One trend we’ve seen is weak opens locking in shorts down low, shaking people out only to either rip right back by open nearing red/green or shortly after open 9:45-10AM cross and squeeze. We saw this on Friday with IPSU from the long call.

Call: http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/PIEDTSVGVC.png

Charts:

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/LRTZNGBYTR.png

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/NYDKWDZHUA.png

Other traps:

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/BXQMCSSUPG.png

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/BUTFFYKWSU.png

The second part of the question regarding how to react if it is green to start – what I look for is a GREEN hold, let it re-test the prior close – TYPICALLY not always but typically a stock will re-test prior support or prior close before heading back up after a big 10-20 or 30% up day the day before. Other days they’ll gap up and keep on running – usually I ignore those.

To play them I’d rather chase them higher and play a bit smaller with a chart pattern I am familiar with rather than just randomly buying just because they are up. Many times you’ll see me say “small chase but … ” and that’s usually off a flat line consolidation and perk on a stock that has gapped that morning.

Take HSOL for example we discussed last seminar about how important the $2 break and hold was for the next play:

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/XKCWKJFCAC.png

That was the chart from last seminar and as you saw this week the idea came into play – a $2 TEST and HOLD meaning let it break thru $2 (if you didn’t long it anticipating the $2 break) once it re-test and HOLDS $2 and perks off that – that is the move I want to be LONG for the breakout with risk being $1.90-1.95 range. As you saw it hit $2.50 http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/ABNVZBLHDM.png


Friday when u bought NSRS on the perk, was it a buy @ BID or buy @ ASK? I’m wondering since if it’s a buy at BID with size that means someone wants out while its perking up off consolidation. So do u automatically grab the ask knowing there won’t be a bid or is there a bid and u went for bid

This question sorta doesn’t make sense but I’ll try my best. Most of the times I buy bids because I am playing the bounces, like the first buy:

[Feb 10, 2012 9:43:16 AM EST] InvestorsLive got a couple NSRS .3719

But later on when I bought the perk I just took the offer.

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/PIXXDBFEKA.png because it was gearing as you can see http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/ZVZEXERVFD.png

I think what will clear up your question is realize that every buy is a sell and every sell is a buy … there’s 2 sides to every transaction – but if your question is asking because it may be ‘spread’ ie: goes .45 x .49 and is it worth it to grab .49 etc … it really depends on the chart and how bad you want in, personally I probably wouldn’t chase a .04 cent gap on a stock like that .. but some do. We didn’t really have to worry about that with NSRS though it trades in a very tight channel and bid/ask is usually .002-.005 spread max – the only time it had a gap in the chart was after my sells at .53 and it went straight to .61.

Another look: https://www.investorsunderground.com/img/AJXCSHVVSD.png

Talk about NSRS red/green rebound, volume gearing/perking emails etc. thought process behind it

I also wanted to how / where to notice ANTS taking off? Also, was pattern that could let you know during midday (2-3 pm) that ANTS could continue from $0.012 to $0.023? Or is that kind of a bet without much support?

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/WMCLXLKZBD.png

[Feb 10, 2012 2:28:15 PM EST] InvestorsLive ANTS pullin’ an ATRN

[Feb 10, 2012 3:06:01 PM EST] InvestorsLive liking ANTS reminds me of ATRN

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/ZAGKBSCYWI.png

You have to be ok with the risk vs. reward this looks a lot like ATRN before it took off – had a big history traded a lot much higher and faded off to sub .01 … has since been rebounding had good volume was on accumulation scan for the past few days (check chat logs each day it’s been on accum) which means 75% of the vol on the offer during the given period … shows strong accumulation watch for upside and boom!



Can you explain how to buy breakouts on a chart like ATRN? Do I have to look at volume when I buy?

I look for stocks that traded A LOT of volume up high when I play bounces – ATRN ANTS etc etc old stocks that traded in the dollar + range millions of shares

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/RENZFFVSFI.png

Earlier example: http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/YNPZYFUUDV.png

I know you said that already thousand times, but could you show on this example where exactly (say exact number pls) would you place limit orders? 

You are long and see sudden fast red candles going against you. You want to exit fast. BID=10.50, ASK=10.70.

If you’re trying to get out fast the only thing to do his hit the bid, so that answer is $10.50


T530 calls ++ news. You open chart and see couple huge green candles already there. You want in fast. BID=20.50, ASK=20.70.

It depends on what the chart looks like, I pull it up quickly if I am ok with the risk vs. reward on a quick glimpse than I will chase it … so if I want in fast I take the offer which is $20.70. Typically if you’re looking to accumulate a stock you may want to try to get a better price and bid for it but if you want IN you take the offer if you want OUT you hit the bid.



Hi, I am really enjoying the site. Lots of useful info. I have spent the past couple of days watching stocks on scan and following along in the chat trying to get an idea of how things flow and how I am going to use the info in my trading. My question is this: When watching a stock that is trading within a tight range for the day and it is going red/green how long do you wait to enter a position?

Do you anticipate the move, get in as it hits green or wait a specific amount of time after it has moved green? What are the indicators you personally look for before entering? I anticipated on THLD the other day and lost and realized that I have done this before. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, shaun.

Example:

QPSA red/green recently in play

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/DLLQKZTIQO.png

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/ZSTGXCYNUO.png

TRGT red/green off consolidation

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/MNUSRNWLDE.png

NLST red/green off consolidation

http://www.investorsunderground.com/img/UHXUXDWISD.png

Some of gearing-perking calls look like nice dbl. top forming. 
But gear/perk is a long call and dbl top is a short call.
You don’t believe in dbl. tops?

Talk about what you’re going to do with the next crazypenny. Everyone is going to be buying and holding, and I have a feeling because everyone’s going to be doing the same thing, they’re going to bag everybody and dump it. Even AMWI pulled back 25% in the beginning and then did nothing for the first 2 weeks. How will you be playing the next crazypenny and will you consider holding overnight after the first day? When everyone expects it to go up big (like RAYS), it never ends up doing so, and I have a feeling this next promo is going to suck because everyone is thinking 10 bagger.

1 Comment

  1. I really like this format. 

    Reply

Submit a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *